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NinSage's List
I avoided the obvious things like "Wii successor detailed" or "Skyward Sword detailed."
- HOPE: 3DS can be used as a Project Café controller.
- HOPE: The new 3DS Mario game will be a brand new 3D game with the suits from SMB3.
- PREDICTION: The new 3DS Mario game will be a remake of Mario 3 called "Super Mario Bros 3DS." It will be 2D but will have added features along the lines of any remake.
- PREDICTION: Nintendo announces a brand new StarFox game from Retro Studies.
- PREDICTION: Pikmin 3 is announced as a 3DS game called "Pikmin 3DS."
- HOPE: Extensive Dragon Quest X footage and details.
- HOPE: A full Pokémon console experience with an emphasis on multiplayer that borders on MMO.
- PREDICTION: The third version of Pokémon Black/White is announced for the 3DS (and the DS??).
- PREDICTION: Skyward Sword comes out this Holiday and is not pushed back for a dual-launch on Project Café.
- HOPE: The character of Sheik is given a starring role in a game.
- PREDICTION: The new Kirby Wii game will be out sometime before November.
- HOPE: All the Japanese/European Wii games get localization announcements.
- PREDICTION: At least two of the Japanese/European Wii games get localization announcements (Xenoblade & Last Story).
Supa's List - PREDICTION: Project Cafe will be announced with a title that will surprise and completely shock the "hardcore" gamers. The same group Nintendo is supposedly trying to win back.
- PREDICTION: The hardcore title in question will be from RockStar games, and will not be a new GTA, but an entirely new franchise having to do with a partnership with Nintendo.
- HOPE: Nintendo announces a reliable and trusted partner in their Cafe online service.
- PREDICTION: Nintendo will announce a collection of new 3DS games that are not ports and remakes. Games that will spike 3DS sales as they release.
- HOPE: Skyward Sword is played on stage again by Miyamoto. Only this time there isn't any blue-tooth interferance and faith is restored to skeptics of the project.
- PREDICTION: Skyward Swords graphics have been adjusted to sway more to the Twilight Princess side due to second thoughts by Nintendo.
- PREDICTION: Project Cafe's controller will have a screen used to communicate to other players online, as well as act as a game menu map for single player experiences
- HOPE: The latest entry in the handheld Pokemon RPG series is announced. The game will revolutionize the series forever with graphically and design wise.
- PREDICTION: A new Star Fox will be announced by Retro Studios either for the 3DS next year, or Cafe as a launch title in late 2012.
- PREDICTION: Nintendo localizes all the JRPG'S in hopes of ending the Wii's long life with a bang.
- PREDICTION: The Leaked Kirby Footage isn't for the Wii as we first thought, but for the 3DS and will launch in September.
- PREDICTION: Pikmin 3 will FINALLY get a release date, and will not continue the Duke Nuke life style.
- PREDICTION: The next Smash Bros will be shown in some form or another.
This week marks the release of several notable games across Nintendo's download game services, with an F-Zero-inspired racer and a Hudson SNES title.
For WiiWare, Shin'en Multimedia's FAST-Racing League, an F-Zero-like futuristic racing game set in the year 2112, debuts. It features fast racing for up to four players in multiplayer mode. Players can feed their need for speed at only 1,000 Wii Points ($10).
The second release for WiiWare is a demo of BIT.TRIP VOID, from Gaijin Games. VOID marks the third release of the BIT.TRIP series, and has players controlling a black void trying to capture black dots while avoiding the white ones. The demo version is, as always, free of charge. The full version will set players back 600 Wii Points ($6).
The lone Virtual Console game for the week is Super Adventure Island from Hudson. Master Higgin's first Super NES game retains the challenging platforming the series is known for. Players must keep Master Higgins well fed, otherwise he will lose a life. The game can be downloaded for 800 Wii Points ($8).
DSiWare sees the release of House M.D. Globetrotting from Legacy Interactive, an adventure game where players take control of the infamous doctor as he seeks the answer to a mysterious disease haunting an aging TV host. Players interview patients and figure out many of medicine's mysteries. The game has been priced at 800 Nintendo DSi Points ($8).
The second DSiWare game this week is B Team - Episode 1: Dust and Steel from Subdued Software. The 800 Nintendo DSi Point ($8) title is a squad-based shooting game where players star as a small army against a legion of bad guys such as voodoo warriors and guerrillas.
The final game for the week is Valet Parking 1989 from Zordix AB. The '80s-styled puzzle game lets players take control of various vehicles as they park them before the time runs out. This game has been priced at 500 Nintendo DSi Points ($5).
Since last week was a great success we are doing it again this week. We might be playing some games tonight if people are up for it. Also I found my DS Lite last night so I may be playing that in the chat. Hope everyone can come.
I've finally been honored with the privilege of playing an actual retail game on my 3DS, and it feels great.
Yes, after originally purchasing the Nintendo 3DS at launch with no games, a video game Messiah descended from heaven and on to my door step in the form of a Dead or Alive: Dimensions.
Now you're probably wondering, "is this another article to kill time because it's not yet the best day in the world known as E3?" Well, I should just lie to you and tell you no, but yes that is the reason for this. But! I think this is a good topic to bring up.
"Understanding your first time in 3d." Until actually playing a game, I honestly had not enjoyed my 3DS. And I think that will be the case for most 3DS owners until the library expands. I mean, there was no internet access first of all, and it's not like I'm one to get a rush out of creating Mii's all day; Face Raiders was entertaining at the start but got dull after a few days. So this game, Dead or Alive: Dimensions, it's truly a blessing.
It has finally let me understand why I bought a 3DS. TO HAVE FUN. I mean, it's just amazing to see. At first glance this is essentially a restructured DS Lite. But it's playing Nintendo GameCube caliber games in full fledged 3D! It's just really awesome to see how far technology has come, and to finally play 3D games on the go. Granted I've only played for a few hours, but just thinking of the possibilities and the future of this system. MIND BLOWING.
So the proof is in the pudding my friends, it's just hard to understand what you're getting, until you finally get to see it in action.
I find that there isn’t too much to talk about in the Nintendo world that isn’t 3DS related at the moment. I mean, we’ve all heard rumors about what we can expect to see from Nintendo and its new console, but other than that we’ve been left in the dark, put in an almost pre-E3 rut state. Meaning that, hey, we got some time to kill.
So In honor of E3 approaching, I would like to draw up the following question. What is the last “great” game that you’ve had the pleasure of playing, and what things did it do to set it apart from the rest?
The last “great” game I played, would have to be a title by the name of Resident Evil 4 (the Wii edition mind you.) I remember going into the game with hardly any knowledge on the series; the only thing I knew was when I was younger, one of the games gave me nightmares for a week; shout out to my wonderful elder cousin, for letting ten year old me play an original resident evil game in a dark room, downstairs by myself and with no night light in sight.
But skip to the present, and the game I had the opportunity of playing a little less than a year ago, Resident Evil 4. This game was a twenty dollar pick up, that I decided to get based on a random video review I stumbled across for it, in an attempt to find a good Wii game. (This was around the time where I was craving something that wasn’t made by Nintendo.) But anyways, yeah, I watched the review, and it seemed like a good game to gamble on.
So I pop in the game for the first time, struggling for about the first half hour as I was trying to trying to get the controls down. And you know what, looking back now, those first 30 minutes were probably the only bad parts of the game for me; because after that, I knew how to use the controls and it was smooth sailing!
I mean, I was hooked! I got to shoot zombies in the face, and slash any in arms reach of me! I was creeping around trying not to engage a horde of them, while at the same time, looking for bullets and herbs to survive and progress further in the game. It was just such a pleasantly new feeling and an absolute rush for me; I was scared and excited at the same time.
One part of me wanted to turn on the lights and set the controller down, while the other, well, he just wanted to kick ass and take names in the pitch black aura that was my basement. That is one thing about playing this game is, it’s a game that has a certain tone to it, and its setting is crucially important for full enjoyment. I mean, how many other games are played best in the dark with the intention of getting you all uppity and terrified every time you open a new door?
Another thing that was really great about Resident Evil 4, was the controls adapted to its Wii port. I mean, it was the first time I ever saw a Wii game actually take advantage of the console’s motion controls for the better of mankind, and in an exciting and new way! Reloading with a downward shake motion of the Wiimote, the use of your knife with a swing of the Nunchuck, it was just pure genius to make use of the controls like that! I know it might sound like something that anyone could have come up with, granted anyone could, but it was a rarity to see controls used right on the Wii at that point, even now you wonder what some games were trying to do with their motion controls. But not in Resident Evil 4; no other games made it such a natural thing, and the controls just became second nature.
Notice how I haven’t talked about the story or graphics in this game at all? It’s by mistake and design simultaneously. Coming into this, I wanted to talk about the story and graphics of course, but my love for how fun Resident Evil 4 was to play, versus how it appeared graphically and how good the story was, totally overshadowed both of the those categories. This does not mean I didn’t enjoy the visuals, they were better than most Wii games I was used to. And this doesn’t mean that I didn’t find the story intriguing, it had good pacing, and I was really in to the whole virus outbreak that took over Leon/ taking care of the president’s daughter/ stopping Los Illuminados part of the story.
It just means that a great game for me at the end of the day, comes from how it plays, and my enjoyment in playing it. Everything else is a perk, and an added incentive to continue playing; they're great to have, and make the experience that much more enjoyable.
There are two terms I see all too often whenever people have a differing opinion about a game. When it's a popular title, it's labeled as “overrated,” and if it's a largely unknown game, then it becomes “underrated.” At first glance, these words appear harmless, simply statements that reflect how one's own rating of a game differs from its median score. However, there's a certain elitist undertone to these terms, one that implies the general opinion of a game is wrong.
Not surprisingly, I see these descriptors applied to Wii games more than anything else. It seems like every worthwhile title on the system is billed as overrated by its detractors, and every decent game on the system that gets ignored is labeled underrated by its supporters.
As much as Nintendo tries, their games are not for everyone, and so not everyone is going to enjoy them. Yet it would seem too many people who prefer the Xbox 360 and/or PS3 label any popular Wii title as overrated, considering them poor titles that no one should like and holding condescending views of those who do. This also goes beyond Nintendo's own titles, stating that even the third-party and lesser-known titles get overrated because Wii owners are desperate for any decent game to play. I can accept if there are a relatively large number of people who don't like the Wii library, because it is decidedly different than that of the Xbox 360 and PS3. However, to not accept that other people have different taste in games than one's own, and to hold contempt for such individuals, is very close-minded, ignorant, and, to be blunt, asinine.
On the flip side of the coin are the underrated titles. There are two types of games this gets applied to: ones that are decently popular but have a low median score, and ones that are nearly unheard of. In the case of the former, if that many people consider the game no good, then the game is no good to a majority of people. Does that mean no one could enjoy it? Of course not, but a select few who love it aren't going to change the fact that most people don't want to play it. This should especially be recognized if one such game is being recommended to another person, as it makes for a possibility that the person will not like it.
The second case, where unknown titles are underrated, is more of a misuse. If few people have played a game and therefore it has received few ratings, it can't be underrated because so little have applied a score. In this sense, a more appropriate term is “underappreciated.” This term means that few people gave such games proper attention, and they go ignored either because people didn't put in the effort to learn about them, or plain haven't heard of them at all.
Having said this, I do believe there have been a couple of cases where a game was legitimately overrated by the media. Now, before it appears that I'm contradicting myself, I'm not arguing against these people's opinions. To give an example, Super Smash Brothers Brawl is overrated. So is Scribblenauts. These titles have some merits and I can understand how one could enjoy them, but they also have a number of undeniable flaws that anyone with a critical mind would point out. Not one single review that I read during each game's release mentioned any flaws. It would seem that reviews never saw past the “wow” factor that these two games have, and I am disappointed that no one applied any sort of critical thinking when playing and reviewing these games.
On the other hand, I can think of no game that is legitimately underrated. In my experience, if a game has received mid or low scores by the majority, it really is a mediocre or poor game ripe with technical issues or other problems. It is perhaps interesting how one can become blind to a game's faults if they enjoy it, but no one misses a game's possible merits if they hate it. This makes a degree of sense; people play videogames for entertainment, so they look for the fun in them instead of picking them apart for their flaws.
Out of a show of respect for others, I tend to avoid using both overrated and underrated when describing games. There are certainly some majority scores I disagree with, but everyone is different, and I try my best to not bemoan those with dissenting views. Likewise, the next time someone considers using either word, I hope they take a minute to contemplate what it is they are actually saying.
Site chat will be tonight. I'd like to get some games going in the chat if we can. I'll be playing Monster Hunter Tri tonight and maybe other games. Hope we can get a nice chat going along with some games tonight.
As of right now, and all the way up until Saturday the 28th, Toys “R” Us will be selling a varied selection of full retail 3DS games for only $29.99 each!
I don’t want this to sound like a sales pitch for Toy’s “R” Us, but this is a really great opportunity to purchase some games you might have missed out on at launch, or to just pick up a few games on the cheap.
It should be noted that if you order online right now, you’re eligible for free shipping!
The deal includes the following titles (you can decide which ones are worth your time and money):
- Asphalt 3D
- Dead or Alive Dimensions
- Dream Trigger 3D
- Green Lantern: Rise of the Manhunters
- LEGO Pirates of the Caribbean.
- Rabbids Travel in Time 3D
- Rayman 3D
- Ridge Racer 3D
- SpongeBob SquigglePants
- Super Monkey Ball 3D
Again, all 25% off from the original listing price. Let us know if decide on picking any up!
Who's the most bad-ass of them all?
That would be ME! Because at roughly 1:30 AM I finally completed the Mirror Mode in Donkey Kong Country Returns by thwarting those g-darn moles in level 4!!
For those unaware, the Mirror Mode in DKCR turns the levels backwards, does not allow the use of Diddy Kong and, oh yea, one hit kills you!
Most of the levels were not much of a problem. But certain bosses (those moles!!) and certain temples (no checkpoints) became real challenges.
So, yea, challenge complete. My reward?!!? Some mediocre concept art. YAY!
PS - I know Mop_it_up has also completed Mirror Mode, but she's gotten enough praise lately, right?? ^_^
This is just a small reminder, (which I’m sure most of you are already aware of) but Nintendo’s E3 media presentation will offered once again this year, live and online, June 7th at 9 a.m. PDT.
This is a great way to watch if you’re going to be out and about around that time, or are just unable to watch on your own TV set.
Link is below if you're one of those people. It's a pretty neat way to experience E3 for those of you looking for something new.
http://e3.nintendo.com/
This week we have 4 games for the Nintendo download service. First up is Puzzle Quest:Challenge of the Warlords for the DSiware service.It costs 800 points. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhMyJ9cl9W0 Next up is 99 Bullets for DSiware.It costs 500 points.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zdaY_J9BfU Next is 3D Twist & Match for DSiware.It costs 200 Dsiware points.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d8hM67I7cw Finally on Wiiware we have Overflow.It costs 500 Wii points.
So, last night's chat was one of the most successful in the history of the internet.
We had between 8 and 9 participants for most of the evening and the discussions lasted from 6pm all the way to, I believe, past 2am!! Not too shabby.
Kudos to Maxi for setting it up, and we'll make sure the Sunday@6 chats become a permanent thing.
Well yesterday in the chat we decided to have another day for the chat as well as on Wednesdays. So we figured Sunday would work for the weekend chat. If anybody has a better time on Sunday leave a comment below. Hope everyone can join us today.
Congratulations to Kathrine for utterly dominating our Tetris Party game night. Arkia and I gave some ... competition. We probably played about 20 rounds. I had about 5 wins, Arkia had about 3 and Kathrine (aka Mop_it_up) had the rest!! With a late cameo appearance by my wife who gave Kathrine a run for her money in one round but ultimately fell short.
If you see Kathrine around the internet, give her at least three cheers.
Until next time, block-fitters!
If you’re a real Zelda nut, then at one point or another, you probably tried to make sense of the chronological order of series yourself; perhaps you even drafted a timeline that you believe holds authenticity?
You just might have come to the conclusion however, (after hours of self conflicting brain damage) that there's no true chronological order for the Zelda games, and that everything is just a compiled mess of theories and themes that intertwine, holding no real meaning.
According to Nintendo, you’re dead wrong.
Nintendo’s Dan Owsen (former software developer for Nintendo that played a big role in Zelda game translations) said that yes, there is indeed an actual timeline of the series.
Owsen explains:
“You know, at one point we had drafted a timeline and wanted to make it available online, we showed it to the guys in Japan and they basically told us that it would be best if we didn’t post it. They wanted to keep it open for how each player views the chronology of the series..”
I do agree that some things are better left to the imagination; like Link speaking for example, I believe it would be a huge mistake by Nintendo to give him actual dialog, the yells and screams are holding up fine.
But the question of what the real Zelda timeline is, that’s something I’m sure everyone is willing to sell their cat to find out!
Just who is it hurting to release the timeline? Okay, Maybe the cats feelings, but he'll get over it in "time".
Come on Nintendo, give us a hint at least!
Source: (Destructoid) http://www.destructoid.com/legend-of-zelda-timeline-exists-nintendo-keeps-it-secret-201693.phtml
Today's the day, puzzle people! Please gather in the Site Chat a little before 4PM EST (3PM Central, 2PM Mountain, 1PM Pacific) for our first ever Tetris Party Tournie!
We'll do some practice matches first and go over the rules and do some practice matches first - then on to the four block action!
It'll probably all go something like this: [ link]
See you all there!!
Current Contestants
Amy: 0130-7612-5539
Arkia: 4641-9798-7485
Mop_it_up: ???
Zero Tolerance: ???
There’s a rumor floating around as of late, that the next controller in Nintendo’s console future will incorporate a built-in camera.
A source, supposedly close to Nintendo, reported to Develop-online that the console's controller will have a front-facing camera system, said to be for in-game images.
The source reiterated on the reported six-inch touch-screen, confirming it, and even suggested that it might be paired with its own stylus.
Pocket-lint believes that the controller will be very similar to the 3DS itself, even boldly stating that they believe the 3DS on its own will be able to correspond with the new Nintendo console, similarly to the way the PSP already does with the PS3.
Does this mean that perhaps even as it's own standalone controller?
I was reading an article over at Gamasutra. [ link]
Basically it discussed the possible validity of the evidence presented for California State Senator Leland Yee's gaming law.
Now, I do not think that video games really have any affect on making minors violent. I think as long as the kids are level headed and don't have other issues that games won't affect them. For those that have issues, video games are a scapegoat for any violent incidents.
What are your thoughts on this issue?
Once again chat will be at 8pm EST tonight. Hope everybody can join us.
Well this week one of the Greatest games of all time has come to the Virtual Console. Virtual Console. CHRONO TRIGGER Original platform: Super NES Publisher: Square Enix Players: 1 ESRB Rating: E10+ (Everyone 10 and Older) - Mild Fantasy Violence Price: 800 Wii Points Description: A young man is transported into the past, altering the course of history and the outcome of the future. He has to find his way home, but first he must travel to the outer edges of time to repair the world's chronology. On the way, he encounters strange friends and foes, uses incredible devices and vehicles, and penetrates and neutralizes the fortresses of the past, present and future. A paradox has been created. If he does not restore the order of time, nothing will ever be the same. He is the one who will become a hero. He is Crono. Nintendo DSiWare Big Bass Arcade Publisher: Big John Games Players: 1 ESRB Rating: E (Everyone) Price: 500 Nintendo DSi Points Description: Big Bass Arcade is all about the action where the bass are biting and fighting. Catch a boatload of fish and take a shot at the world-record bass. The game is packed with features: seven different lakes, nine lures, three multiple-lake tournaments, 42 events, high scores for each event and the elusive world-record bass. Big John Games brings 17 years of fishing game experience to Big Bass Arcade to create incredible fish behaviors, spectacular animations and second-to-none fish AI. Putting the fun back into hand-held fishing is the name of the game. Players choose from two control options - stylus or +Control Pad - for casting, reeling and controlling the fish-fighting action. Big Bass Arcade appeals to fishing enthusiasts and gamers alike by capturing the adrenaline rush of fish-fighting in an arcade-style game. Word Searcher 3 Publisher: Digital Leisure Inc. Players: 1 ESRB Rating: E (Everyone) Price: 500 Nintendo DSi Points Description: You'll need a keen eye and a quick mind to complete 100 themed word-search puzzles. Word Searcher 3 contains fun words from multiple categories including astronomy, currency and rivers. Packed with a huge assortment of subjects to choose from, there's sure to be a puzzle anyone can enjoy. Keep your vocabulary, memory and problem-solving skills sharp with these challenging puzzles. Keep track of - and try to beat - your own play-through times again and again as words are scrambled every time you play. Hellokids - Vol. 1: Coloring and Painting Publisher: BiP Media Players: 1 ESRB Rating: E (Everyone) Price: 200 Nintendo DSi Points Description: Imagine a coloring book on your Nintendo DSi system, add the ability to create your own drawings and to draw over photos, and you've got Hellokids. Color and draw using the Nintendo DSi stylus. Enjoy more than 150 drawings you can color with three difficulty levels, including a "color containment" assistant. A Freehand Drawing mode includes simple, practical tools, such as an automatic fill function, a color palette and decorations. You can also draw on a photo you've taken or uploaded from your Nintendo DSi album. Hellokids is a great pocket companion for all budding artists. WiiWare Gabrielle's Ghostly Groove: Monster Mix Publisher: Natsume Inc. Players: 1-4 ESRB Rating: E (Everyone) Price: 500 Wii Points Description: Join Gabrielle and her monster friends as they dance along to a spooktacular selection of songs. Grab your Wii Remote™ controller and dance along as you shimmy, shake and spin in time to the music. There's trouble in Monster Town: Vlad the Vampire's loyal zombies have disappeared. Gabrielle and her monster friends will have to bust some serious moves on the dance floor in order to lure them back. Along the way, maybe they can uncover the identity of the mysterious creature that's terrorizing Monster Town's zombies. Up to four players can show off their best moves in the game's multiplayer mode. (Additional accessories are required for multiplayer mode and are sold separately.) Short and full versions of songs let you dance as much as you want. Unlock tons of outrageous outfits and items. Lead the Meerkats (demo version) Publisher: Lapland Studio Players: 1 ESRB Rating: E10+ (Everyone 10 and Older) - Animated Blood, Mild Violence Price: 0 Wii Points; full version available for 1,000 Wii Points Description: In Lead the Meerkats, you are a young meerkat who has a lot to accomplish. You've been separated from your pack, and the time has come for you to form your own meerkat pack. Are you ready for the challenge? Name your pack and its meerkats. Dig burrow networks and enlarge your territory. Forage for food and grow your pack size. Stay on guard and be ready to make quick decisions. Run to the safety of the burrows or fight your enemies. Go head-to-head with a rival meerkat pack. Lead your pack to victory and rule the savanna. Lead the Meerkats is the first game to simulate the exciting life of meerkats. Lead your pack and enjoy the company of these lively and endearing animals. Lead the Meerkats offers fun game play for animal lovers of all ages.
These guys are flappin' brilliant:
Extra Credits - Graphics vs Aesthetics [ link]
This is old, but, I just found it and it's brilliant:
Think you're hardcore? Then there's a good chance you're not. [ link]
Like always we will be having site chat at 8pm EST. We can talk about our upcoming tourney and other things. I myself will be in the chat but I probably won't talk much since I am working on other things. Hope everybody can join us.
The Tetris Party Tournie is tentatively scheduled for 4pm EST on Saturday, May 21st.
Go [ here] to sign up with your friend code or discuss scheduling conflicts/rescheduling.
I believe the only rule that needs discussing is to NOT use items. I don't think anyone is used to the items enough to want to use them or miss not having them. But we can talk it over tomorrow during the weekly site chat and maybe run a few practice matches!
(Comments disabled for this post. Go talk on the forums!)
You may notice the site's (mostly cosmetic) overhaul. Thanks for bearing with us while the site was broken for a about 24 hrs.
Stay tuned for news on the upcoming Tetris Party tournie!
Well today it has been confirmed that Nintendo is releasing a new bundle for the Wii. The Bundle will be either a black or white Wii and will be coming with Mario Kart Wii as well as a matching Wii wheel.This will replace the Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort bundle that was in the previous bundle. The new bundle will become active on May 15th. Also on May 15th Nintendo will release the Nintendo Selects titles. The titles will cost $19.99.At the moment these titles will be released then under the new "Nintendo Selects" label The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Animal Crossing: City Folk, Mario Super Sluggers and Wii Sports. What does everybody think about this bundle and if you could add some titles for the Nintendo Selects titles which would it be?
Well this week we are most likely going to talk about what type of rules for our tournament. We will most likely talk about what concerns we have about the PSN service and can something similar happen to the other two online services. Also maybe some real life things that happened this past week such as the death of Osama Bin Ladin among other things. Hope everybody can make it.
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